Leveraging Data & Product Management For Career Growth

Jennifer

It’s started.

Alright, Hello. It’s just 7 am. for me but I assume it's… 5?  

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Adeniyi

It's 4… It’s 4 pm. Yeah, it’s 4 pm. 

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Jennifer

RIght. Yeah, the time zone conversion is still a little rough, but every time I have one of these events, I tell… I ask people for like where they're from and then I try to guess the time. Most of the time, it's accurate, so it's pretty good.

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Adeniyi

Yeah.

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Jennifer

Awesome.

Thanks everyone, for coming in. I'm so excited to share all of Adeniyi’s advice. Maybe while you're all filing in here, you can put in the chat where you're calling in from and then I'll try to guess what time it is for you. So I don't know, you're from Lagos… so, yeah Lagos, Nigeria? 4 pm. I'm in… I'm calling from Vancouver, BC and it's 7 am. Actually, I think 7 am used to be like 3 pm for you but it changed because we had daylight savings. Do you have daylight savings in Nigeria? Oh, so lucky. It messes up my sleep every time. 

Okay does the chat work for everyone? Feel free to put down where you're calling in from in the chat as we wait for more people to file in. Maybe the chat does not work for people and that's why they're raising their hands. 

Okay, that's okay I can see how to enable the chat for everyone. I'm not sure how to do that but that's okay. You can just ask questions in the Q & A. There is a Q & A box; I see some of you have already found it and let me know that the chat isn't working, so thank you for that but the point of this event is usually Q & A, anyway. So, feel free to put in… like, ask your questions in the Q & A box. I'm not sure why chat isn't working but sorry about that, everyone. 

Okay, so Adeniyi actually has to go in like 40 minutes, so I'm just gonna quickly get it started and hopefully, you'll get a lot of your questions answered.

Okay, ooh I see somebody's from Ottawa from the Q & A. Thanks for using the Q & A instead of the chat. Perfect. 

Okay, I'm gonna share my screen now and do a quick introduction. So a lot of you probably already know about EntryLevel; we are… we basically help you learn and get experience so that you can get hired. Oh, we actually released product management Level 2, so if you go to our website, you can start enrolling in product management Level 2 right now. 

Before we start, I do have a poll for you guys. So, it's asking about your level of experience in Tech. It should pop up on your screen right now and you can vote. 

Okay so it looks like so far, most people have taken a few courses. I'll share the results as well. So, I don't know, you can see it... I don't know if you can see the results right now but I'll show them so everyone can see. 

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Adeniyi

Okay I think I closed it by mistake. 

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Jennifer

Oh that's okay. I'll share the results once everyone has voted  it looks like most people have already taken a few courses—a few tech courses—but also a lot of them are complete beginners, and a lucky few have had an internship or a job in tech. That's amazing, okay. I'm ending the poll now.

Can you see the results? 

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Adeniyi

Yeah, I can. So “took a few courses,” ‘internship,” and “complete beginners.” 

So, we have “a few courses” ranking more followed by “beginners” and “internship or job in tech”. Nice.

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Jennifer

Yeah, it's pretty much an event which is interesting. I expected most people to be complete beginners, but that wasn't the case, so that's pretty cool.

All right, so just the agenda for today, like I said, it's mostly going to be Q & A. Adeniyi is going to show all of his wisdom; it’s going to be really interesting, I look forward to it very much. And then you'll get the chance to ask your questions. You have to use the Q & A function to ask it because the chat is not working—I'm not sure why—but then, we'll see a question if you put it in the Q & A box.

The Q & A box is like, on the bottom, where the chat and like, the mute button is. If you see it, you can just click on that and type in your question.

So, before we start, please be respectful; no inappropriate questions, please. And unfortunately, we are not able to see or hear you, but I see some of you already, like, raised your hands, but we’ll probably only save that kind of engagement for the end, just in the interest of time. So, if you have a question that you want addressed, and we have no other questions popping up in the Q & A, we can call on you and then you can unmute to ask.

Just another notice that if you're interested in product design or UX design, we do have another event coming up and you can find it at entrylevel.net/events, and I'll put that link in the chat in a bit. But in the meantime, I'm going to let Adeniyi introduce himself.

So, you can go ahead.

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Adeniyi

I really wish I could see everyone on the call, but I can only see their names; I can’t see their videos? But I mean, that's fine.

So, my name is Adeniyi Babajide. I'm a product manager and besides being a product manager, I’m a data analyst and also a Venture Builder. And what that means is, I help entrepreneurs and their ideas to go from just the idea stage up into building a sustainable and scalable business. I'm based out of Lagos, Nigeria, and I've had the opportunity to build products across four to five different countries. So, Nigeria, Ghana, Uganda, in the US and also in the UK… and I work remotely. Yeah.

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Jennifer

Wow, that's amazing.

Wait, did you say like, 40 plus different countries? 

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Adeniyi

Four different countries. Five, actually.

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Jennifer

That's still a lot. Oh my gosh!

Thanks so much sharing. Actually, I have a question for you. I'm sure many of us will want to know as well what was your story like? How did you get into data and product?

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Adeniyi

Okay, so unlike every other person, I have like, a very interesting story; I tend to call it interesting. So, when I started out my career, I was working in a startup and because it was in a startup, I was… they’d tell you that working in a startup requires you wearing multiple hats. So, I was doing operations, I was doing sales, I was doing marketing, I was doing products, and I was also doing tech support. And I'm going to go to network events or talk to my friends and this guy tells me, “Okay, I'm doing product design,” this tells me “I'm doing product management,” and if you ask me, I can't tell you anything because I'm the guy that does everything in the company.

So, it was, I didn't like that fact. I wanted to be known for something even though I like all of your experience that I had. I wanted to be known for just one thing and I want to build on that, so I got into Data. 

So then, there was this buzz about data being the new oil everywhere. I did a lot of research, I attended a lot of masterclasses, I took a lot of videos and all of that, so I decided that, “You know what? It was going to be data for me.”

So, I tried programming but it wasn't just connecting like I… it's something that I just want to do for the money, but I didn't want something that I want to do for the money; I want something that I can do and I can be happy doing it, right? So that was how my journey into the… into Data started and it went from there. It was very, very interesting and I made a lot of noise about data that people… even people that were not in Tech knew I was a data analyst and that was how I made it; ring a bell and people would be like, “Oh, that guy's a data… if you just ask, they don't care what kind of data, they just tell you, “Go and talk to Adeniyi; he’s a data analyst. He’s going to tell you whatever it is that you need to know.” 

So I… I was… I did pretty well in data and from data, right, I… COVID came and I couldn't go to the office because then, I was not working remotely, so I normally go to the office. So COVID came, I couldn't go to the office. All of the data that was needed for me to analyze were not coming in and that's because people are supposed to be getting me this data, were not going to the office, or they were not going to work as well. So, I said, “You know what? I think it's time for me to move.” And I considered product design but again I have a good eye for design, but I don't think it's something that I want to do, like having to go around figma, out of XD and all of that. So, I ventured into product management and I loved it, and that's when I realized that, “Okay, you know what? I've been a product manager all my life. It's just that I have not been intentional about it or I've not been following the frameworks and methodologies of a product manager.” 

And right from there, it's been very, very awesome; my experience in data having to make decisions, data-driven decisions, having to use all of the methodologies I use in data analytics has also really helped my career as a product manager. 

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Jennifer

Well, I love what you said about how you were like, everything, because that's the way it is with startups. I know it's not for everyone, so who would you recommend? Go into startups versus, like another type of company.

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Adeniyi

So, if you're someone that is looking to… if you're someone that likes new challenge, you don't want to do things in the conventional way, you want to be able to, like, live very fast, experiment very fast, and make decisions very fast, I'd recommend you go to startups. But if you're just someone that wants to sit in one place and just do the same thing all over and all over again, having to reinvent the wheel, then you can try the other conventional workspace. 

I actually tried it for six months. So, I was trying to make a decision, “Should I continue being a startup or I want to try the other conventional workspaces?” And I did it for three months. I couldn't survive it. For one, there was leadership issues, there were cultural issues and before I'm going to consider joining a company, regardless of how much you're going to pay me, I want to be sure that you have a very good culture because with the culture and I can survive. I can do a lot of stuff, so I just like, you know, what I did it for six months and I had to resign and I went back to my startups.

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Jennifer

That's such a good point. Culture is also what I look for because you're gonna be spending a lot of your time at work, right? So, if it's a bad environment, it's really bad for your mental health. 

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Adeniyi

Definitely

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Jennifer

Awesome. So, now I want to ask about, like product and data. So, do you find that knowing both has helped you stand out, and how?

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Adeniyi

Yeah it has really helped me and that’s because if you're going to be building product right, you need to make a lot of decisions. You're making the decisions that can either ruin a company or make a company successful, and you don't want to make all of the decisions based on assumptions. You want to have the fact right and how do you have the fact right? It’s having to make decisions data-driven decisions based on what the markets are saying, based on what the business is saying, and based on what the customers are also saying. 

And we've also seen a lot of stuff that I learnt while I was a data analyst. So, I haven't like, ensure data Integrity, making decisions, making data accessible to everyone and what that has also helped me do in my product experience is that if a stakeholder comes to me to say, “Let's do this” and “Let's do this,” if you don't have the data to prove it to me, we are not doing it. Just… just keep the idea; it's not going to happen. But… and now, because I had data experience, I've been able to, like, make decisions and I've seen these decisions come to fruitful results as a result of that. 

So if I'm still going to continue that whatever decision I have to make, even my personal life it has to be data driven as well even though it's not going to happen.

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Jennifer

Wow. That's such a good point because often, you have to work in an environment with a lot of other people and then you have to, like, kind of convince them of the ideas and data helps there. 

Awesome, thank you so much. I do see a few questions in the Q & A box. I'm going to ask them in order; so somebody is asking about a road map and like, how you get started? Because this person is studying computer science, interested in product management, like what do you put in your resume? How do you get experience? Basically, like how do you even get started? 

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Adeniyi

So getting started, right? If, I mean, because of the dynamics of the world, it's important that you have experience because someone is trusting you with the career of their company. Every tech startup that exists exists because they have a product and they're giving you the leadership of that product. So, whatever it is that you do can break or… make your company successful. So, it's important that you get experience and… while I was starting my career, I didn't consider the money first or I didn't consider the… yeah, the money, whatever luxury that comes with it. 

What I ought to do was, I took a lot of unpaid opportunities, I volunteered with a lot of people just to get this experience and prove to employers that are going to pay me that, you know, what, “I've paid my dues, I've learned everything in class and I have practical experience,” and that's how I was able to get started in products. Because, if you don't have the experience, sincerely, it's going to be a difficult situation getting a paid opportunity. 

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Jennifer

Where did you find these volunteer opportunities? 

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Adeniyi

So, for the voluntary opportunities, I talked to a lot of people—a lot of people actually—and in my… in… also in the company that I work with, I also like talk to the product, guys. 

You know what, I just want to learn from you; use me to do whatever it is as long as I'm learning from you. 

Okay, and I also have like ideas that I have that, like all of those some problems that I had that I believe tech could help me solve so I also started putting in all of what I've learned in class into use.

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Jennifer

Yeah that's a really good point. I would say asking—even just like asking whoever—if you want to shadow them or like getting mentorship could be very useful. I know some companies; if you ask to volunteer with them, they might not do it because it takes time to manage people, right? So, do you have any tips about reaching out to get these volunteer opportunities or mentors?

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Adeniyi

Yeah, so for that… so, thank… thank you for also mentioning mentorship. 

So I used to say if I had access to mentors like I have today, maybe I would have been in a better position, but I didn't have that at all because I was ignorant of that and in my free time today, I spent it mentoring part of managers and also product designers as well. 

So no one wants to come to you because you're coming as a pest before you can get something for anybody—if it's going to be a company or a mentor—you have to be sure that you can offer value because without value, I can't just be… it has to be a shared value relationship. So, I can't be offering value as a mentor and you're not offering value as a mentee. And same thing applies to if you are reaching out to, say, tech founders on LinkedIn and you say, “You know what? I'm just starting my product. I am… Hi, Jennifer! My name is Adeniyi. I'm just starting my product career and I'm looking for internship opportunities.” Yeah, I know you're looking for internship opportunities but the question you should ask yourself is, “How are you going to help my company grow as an intern?”

So you have to be able to sell value, and not just saying, “Okay I went to product school, I did a product management course and it taught me how to do road-mapping, they taught me how to write user stories, they taught me how to use Jira.” So, how would that help me [the founder]? 

So don't come and… don't come and sell features; come to sell value and anybody, anybody in their senses would definitely read that and they'll give you a listening ear. But you just reaching out and say, “Come and help me, I need the internship opportunity,” your message might just be there, unread.

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Jennifer

I love that point because that's not something I hear very often; like you, the mentee also, should give value to the mentor; it's not a one-way relationship. I think what worked for a lot of people is not just like, helping them solve a problem that they have, but sometimes they don't even know what problem they have. But like as a product manager, you need to, like, put your research skills and your product sense to work to like identify and research what the problems are and then offer a solution. So… 

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Adeniyi

Definitely, and just to also build on that, I’m also giving a mentee of mine this same idea and what he did was… so he saw that the product was lacking, like you put out your software in the market and users kept on complaining and what he did was; he did a product audit and he published it on Twitter, having to sort of, shade the company. So, he wasn't promoting the company. Rather, he was pointing out what they were not doing right and trying to condemn them. I'm like, “You shouldn't be doing this, you should be selling this to the employer and telling, him or her how you're going to come solve this problem rather than just putting it out there to condemn the company.” If I was to be the founder, in fact, I'll make sure you don't succeed.

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Jennifer

Yeah, thanks so much sharing. 

I did write up a quick summary of everything that you just said so it will be in the Q & A box under ‘answered’. EntryLevel also has a free product management job search workbook, so whoever asks this question, feel free to download that workbook. But in the meantime, I'm going to move on to the other questions. 

So, some people are asking for more details about using data to make a decision. If the product is, like, starting from scratch, or if you don't have a lot of experience, so how do you start with making use of that data? 

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Adeniyi

So if the product is just starting from scratch, your data is primarily having to talk to users, getting feedback—regular feedback—because at that stage, you're still trying to… you're still trying to achieve problem-solution fit and for you to get that, you need to be able to ensure that your product is solving the… your product—which is the solution—is solving the problem that you said it’s going to solve. And how do you achieve that? 

We talk to customers; you talk to your users, talk to your stakeholders regularly, so you find yourself interacting a lot with the customer success team, getting feedback from them, the marketing team, what are our customers saying about our product? 

So this is going to guide the decision you're going to make. It's not until when you have to, like, quit survey to ask for feedback, so these are things that, it's not just having to get survey that makes you a data-driven product manager. It’s all of these things; having to get feedback, to make decisions that makes you; that's how you're able to manage to have data and also product together. 

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Jennifer

So is that the experience you were talking about that you got in volunteer, like, where you interviewed users or did you get experience in something else? 

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Adeniyi

Can you… do you want to rephrase that?

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Jennifer

Yeah so the experience that you got through the volunteer opportunities; what kind of experience was it? Like, what kind of tasks did you do that really helped you get the job?

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Adeniyi

So during all of these voluntary experience I wrote a lot of documentations and I also learned how to manage stakeholders, but you would… as you start your product career or even your data career, you see scenarios where you have to interact with a lot of stakeholders because if you're going to be a data analyst, you definitely have reports or insights you want to present to your top management and you're going to have a lot of stakeholders ask you questions and these people just want to ensure that we know what you're doing. They're going to ask you some questions and you'll be like, “You shouldn't be asking me this question,” but that's not it; they just want to be sure that you know what you're talking about.

And you're not just coming to show some numbers to them; same thing applies to product. We are going to interact with a lot of stakeholders. Imagine your CEO or your founder; they have investors that they need to report to, you have the marketing team sending something else to the users, you have the sales team like selling something that you've completely not built at all to the users and if the users decide to say, “you know what? We're going to pay for this feature,” they're coming to put pressure on you so it's very important that you know how to manage your stakeholders and these are all of the things that I got to learn in my voluntary experience. And these are also the things that also give me an unfair advantage when I was applying for paid opportunities.

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Jennifer

Oh, that's so interesting. I love what you said about documentation because that's something I found very helpful as well, even just when working on a portfolio but managing stakeholders, that's a very interesting one. So, do you think managing stakeholders, like how would you develop that skill if you, like, if the volunteer opportunities aren't working out. Because, it's not something you can learn in a course, right? 

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Adeniyi

Yeah, definitely.

So, managing stakeholders has to do with your emotional intelligence and your people skills. You know when to ask the right questions, you know when to react and also when to respond, so that's just pretty much it about managing stakeholders. And you also want to load your stakeholders with a lot of information; so, load them with a lot of information so they don't come to you to ask you questions.

And not just loading them with a lot of information; ensure that this information are data driven, that you can see… and that they are things that they can see and if at any point they come back to you and say, “Let's do this,” you are letting them know that this is what the data is showing. “If we go this route this, is the results, if you go this route, this is what the result is going to be,” and have them make the decision by themselves. But what you've been able to achieve is, you've being able to give them a lot of data and also given them ideas on how to make the right decisions, so if they choose to go with the wrong decision, that's not on you anymore, and you have a job. But in a case where you don't give them a lot of this information and they make wrong decisions as a result of you not giving them enough data, I don't know what's going to happen at the end of the day, because everything is going to fall back on you.

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Jennifer

Yeah, I feel like as a product manager you're kind of like responsible even if something's not your fault. Like, you're responsible, so if everything is…

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Adeniyi

You’re the Jesus Christ.

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Jennifer

Yeah, I feel kind of bad because if things go well then it's the credit goes to your team but if things go wrong, then you take the blame. 

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Adeniyi

That’s why you’re a manager. It’s leadership.

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Jennifer

Yeah I guess it's something our future product managers can look forward to. Just a few more questions in the chat. Here somebody is asking about the skills that a product manager needs as well as, like, what your day is like in… like, as a product manager. So maybe we can combine those questions and tell me a day in your life and what skills you would use for your day-to-day tasks.

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Adeniyi

Right. So, I'll start with a day in my life.

So definitely, I perform my money rituals and I plan my day. So, I plan my week on Sundays, which I'm not working, so, for everything I'm going to do all through the week, I already have it like, on my to-do list. So, first one is having to like, do a brain-dump on my jotter and I break all of those into, like, daily talks. And when I wake up in the morning… before going to bed previously I didn't know what I'm going to be doing the next day, so I'm not waking up on that very day and having to like whack my head on what I should be doing, right? So, I do… I have my stand up with my team—so as a product manager, you just have to… yeah also a project manager, you have to check in with your team—on the standup call, it’s mostly a 10-15 minute call having to get update on what's on their progress, on their plans and any blockers so you don't want your product team having any blocker or any challenges in clearing their productivity.

So it's also your job to get it out of the way because if you don't do that, it's going to affect what you're supposed to be shipping and it's just going to affects your product roadmap and you'll be able to meet your… the deadlines you've communicated to your stakeholders. So, I look at those… I look at reports from the CS team, the marketing team, just like giving myself up speed; if I need to plan, if I need to dependent documentation, I also do that. I look at my user stories and I also to my colleague. I also plan the sprint; so I run two-week sprint, so two weeks being that for these two weeks, this is whatfor building and this is what we’re shipping. 

So, while… as I'm on that, as we're building that as the sprint is in progress, other planning; what the next sprint is going to be and this is where prioritization also comes into play. I have to be able to prioritize so I'm able to meet all stakeholders requirements as well. And I have like different tools for this so I also check in my calendars to see meeting that I might be having as well.

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Jennifer

Yeah, okay. So it kind of sounds like you use communication skills, documentation and like stakeholder management. Is there any other skills that you use?

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Adeniyi

I mean, these are just, like the major ones because you get to interact with people on a daily basis. 

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Jennifer

Okay, yeah. I think any management, well, you have to talk to a lot of people, so hopefully all those farming product managers here love talking to people. 

Actually, I'm curious. Would you say you're an extrovert or introvert? Because you're talking to people all day. 

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Adeniyi

I’m an introvert, actually. But no one cares, you just have to get the job done.

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Jennifer

Oh, that's interesting. I'm sure there's lots of different types of product managers from extroverts to introverts. Okay, so we do have another question. Actually a lot of these questions about are about, like, how to get a job, how to get started, so let's say if you… wait, when did you get your job? Like a few years ago?

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Adeniyi

Yeah, that was in 2017. 

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Jennifer

2017. Okay, so if you could go back to your 2017 self or like 2016 self, what advice would you like… what next steps would you give yourself?

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Adeniyi

So, if I… if I'm going to go back, one is to get a very strong support system. And that’s talking about mentors because despite having to build successful product, I've also built product that also failed and those failures were productive failure because I failed forward and… yeah. And I also gets like, it's not just about what you were taught in class; it's about how you're able to make use of it. That also matters, so I've had a lot of lectures in class, but I was not making use of it and I don't believe it was what I was taught in class is… that's what I'm going to do on the job. That's not always the case and that's not always the case generally. 

So, if I was to go back to myself it's going to be having to… as I’m learning, I’m practicing, not having to, like, get a product … completea product course for like three months and I just go to sleep until I get a job. Like immediately, for my first day in class, if you're going to be teaching me design; taking a class today, as I'm getting or after that lecture, I'm ensuring that I’m practiciing design thinking.

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Jennifer

Okay, so practicing design thinking, you said?

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Adeniyi

So, practicing everything you've been taught from class, basically; having to put it into use. So either you're volunteering or you are building your own personal portfolio.

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Jennifer

Okay yeah portfolio is super important, thank you for sharing. Sorry, I have to, like, promote EntryLevel here because we literally have a portfolio component built into our courses. So, if you guys are interested in that, we can guide you through it. I think I have just time for one more question.

Somebody has their hand raised so I'm gonna allow them to talk. Sha-no-ma?

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Adeniyi

Chioma

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Jennifer

Chioma! Hi, if you can ask your question now, feel free to do so. I can also read it out for you, Chioma, if you want. I don't know if you can unmute. 

Okay, I will just read it out for you. So, Chioma has experience in another industry actually, called customer service. But we have people in the audience with experience in marketing and software, like coding. So, how do these people transition into product management if they are from a completely different field than data and product?

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Adeniyi

Right. So, we've seen… I've seen a lot of people transition from customer success into product management and I'd say that's more like a very good entry point into product. And that’s  because you've you've had first time experience in targeting a lot of customers. And products also means that you need to interact with a lot of customers so you just need to find your way and transition gradually and I'll also tell people; it's also, how you’re able to tell your storyt hat matters.

So, if you've been customer success and you've attended product class, how are you able to match what your experience as a customer success to what the product manager does to your interviewer or to your IIM manager? 

Same thing applies to the marketing guys; you’re marketing product, so how are you able to marry your marketing to a product to your money marketing manager and adding value to that, so how did you add value in the capacity of a customer success in the product that your customers were complaining about? How did you resolve their issue? What did you learn and how would you bring that into product management? So it also goes into, are you able to tell your story? And that's selling value and not features again.

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Jennifer

That's a really good point, because I feel like every team impacts the product in some way, and you just have to bring out that aspect. 

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Adeniyi

Definitely.

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Jennifer

Awesome. Just a quick question; what is a CS team? You mentioned it earlier; just wanted to get clarification.

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Adeniyi

That’s Customer Success.

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Jennifer

Oh okay so like, the support team?

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Adeniyi

Yeah, Customer Support, Customer Success team, Customer Service team. 

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Jennifer

Oh wow, they must do… like, that's the best way to transition because you talk to the users so much. So… 

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Adeniyi

Yeah, I mean that's the first entry point or a customer to reach out to the company.

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Jennifer

That's awesome. Okay, I see some other raised hands. I'm going to call on… oh we have like seven minutes left. Do you have time to answer this one person's question or…

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Adeniyi

Sure, okay.

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Jennifer

Okay, let's see… Hello, SN Agbel? 

I really… am I pronouncing that righ? Hello, are you able to unmute to ask? 

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SN Agbele

Okay, good afternoon. Thank you so much for the opportunity. It's nice meeting you and hearing about your journey and the rest. So, I… I was asking the question that if one wants to shadow you, that, how is that possible to shadow you? 

I actually took a course with EntryLevel about two months ago and I was lucky to get into internship with HNG; it’s managed by Mark Essien. So, it’s been a great ride and I've been learning a lot, so I'm now like, “okay, I wouldn't like it to stop there” and I'm thinking it should be an opportunity to speak with a senior colleague with EntryLevel. So…

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Adeniyi

Sure, um… 

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SN Agbele

…the question is; how does one shadow you if ohe wants to shadow you?

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Adeniyi

Sure, I'm… I'm happy to do that and like I mentioned, my free time, I'll spend my free time mentoring product managers. I've got several countries today; still, Jennifer can coordinate that and we can definitely work something out. 

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Jennifer

Yeah, all right.

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SN Agbele

Thank you so much. 

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Jennifer

Awesome. If you… I also believe I sent Adeniyi’s LinkedIn somewhere but I will include it in the email with the recording to everyone, so don't worry. 

There's also this platform called ADP List—wait, Adeniyi, are you on ADP List?

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Adeniyi

Yeah. I’m a mentor on ADP List.

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Jennifer

Okay, wait. Can I just link your ADP List mentorship page, and then if people want they can book a meeting?

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Adeniyi

Yeah, sure. I just… I actually have a link somewhere on my LinkedIn but I'll see how I can check it out. Okay 

Jennifer

Okay I found you on ADP List, yes. so you have a very unique name, I think, so it was very easy to find you on there. Oh, there's so many people with my name 

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Adeniyi

It's user experience. It's user experience; you get to learn it in Products.

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Jennifer

Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, so I linked everything in the chat but I will also email it out to everyone along with Adeniyi’s LinkedIn. Please leave a note that you're from this event because otherwise I'm sure you get lots of requests, so I need a way to better do that. 

Yeah, thank you so much, Adeniyi. If you have to go, feel free to go, but I'm just gonna wrap up everything here by doing a poll. So, I don't need… you can stay if you want to see how people found the event. 

It's just a question, “How would you rate the event?” It's like the options are, ‘Terrible’, ‘Slightly Bad’, ‘Neutral’, ‘Slightly Good’, and ‘Great’. So, feel free to put your feedback there. I'm sorry, I wish we had more time and more chat engagement, but I still think the advice was very valuable, unbiased, because my main takeaway was have good documentation. But I love documentation, so I don't know; what was your main takeaway, Adeniyi? 

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Adeniyi

My main takeaway is err… talking to users, actually.

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Jennifer

Oh, yeah. Talking to users

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Adeniyi

So, there is something in products; in as much as you're trying to build what your customer wants, it's not everything that a customer wants that you’re going to build, because if you build it, you’re shooting yourself on your foot—if you build everything that your customer wants. So, you should find a balance between that one and their needs, and you can only do that by asking the right questions and talking to your users.

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Jennifer

Yeah, I agree. 

So many times, people have said, “Oh, I would pay for this product,” but then when it comes to paperwork, they just don't. So, you have to, like, dig in deeper and ask why a bunch of times…

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Adeniyi

They're not paying anything. They're just trying to let you they're just telling you what you want to hear. 

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Jennifer

Yeah, exactly. So, get practice interviewing users, surveying users, talking to them. You can do that through our product management course or our UX design course or even just on your own. So, I'm going to share the results; as you can see, no worries, 73 of people said that it was good and then the rest was like slightly good or in neutral. 

So, thank you so much, Adeniyi, for sharing your wisdom with us. I know you do have another meeting in like two minutes, so we'll end it here, but I will be emailing out all the resources and you can reply to that email with any more questions you have and I'll try my best to answer them, or if you want a faster response, you can email me at jennifer@entrylevel.net and I can send you other resources.

Okay, well I can't believe we wrapped up on time. Thank you so much.

I will chat with you later. Bye, everyone… have a good one. 

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Adeniyi

Thank you. Bye.

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